BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA
Srila Prabhupada is the ONLY Bhaktivedanta
We DO NOT accept "Conditioned Soul Bhaktivedantas"
coveting the seat and title of Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupadanugas or Bhaktivedantas?
By Urdhvaga das (ACBSP)
Dear Hansadutta Prabhu
Pranams. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I was very astonished to find our private email conversation published by you on the internet, in Pratyatosas Istagosthi forum, where you are quibbling over the terminology of PRABHUPADANUGAS vs. BHAKTIVEDANTAS.
Since you seem not to be able to communicate properly with me, I have sent my reply to Pratyatosas Istagosthi forum, which you seem to prefer. So you can read it there.
Yes, I was a little annoyed with you, because as you know, we lost our communication for the last 20 years or so. In the first email contact with you, after such a very long time, you are writing me: “However, the concocted name PRABHUPADANUGAS you have adopted, has got to go“.
There was NO “hello, how are you, how you doing, how is everything going” NO NOTHING LIKE THIS, but the very first sentence from you is blasting me, saying: “the concocted name PRABHUPADANUGAS you have adopted, has got to go”.
Nice sentence to start an email communication after 20 years, isn’t it?
You are writing, that you are not that tuned into all this computer digital electronic new age, and that you do not know the difference between Skype, Twitter, Forum and private Mail, and that you need a secretary for typing a letter.
Well, you seem to properly address in Pratyatosas Istagosthi forum, posting articles there, writing: “Dear such and such, please accept my most humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada, etc. etc.
So, why it is so difficult for you to have a proper email conversation with me? If you can write me only with the help of a secretary, than forget it. I will not accept letters from you, written by your secretary. If you can not write yourself personally, than forget it. I don’t believe that writing a few lines to me after 20 years, is a great labouring ordeal for you.
It seems that it is NO labouring ordeal for you, to again write to Pratyatosas public Istagosthi Forum, making fun of me, by writing:
"Regarding my exchange with Urdhvaga, I wanted to see what his response would be
to the suggestion of "The BHAKTIVEDANTAS" I suspected it would be what it was.
I havent heard from him since.... so he got his Brahmin underwear all in a knot.
What to do ? Do I now have to chase after him like a henpecked husband after and angry and neglected wife" ??
WOW – great stuff you are writing after 20 years (of non-communication) on a public forum.
>>>> Anyway... dont be angry with me, I meant no harm or insult, or offence in any way. >>>>
Please explain to me how NOT to be offended by such nonsense writing of yours. I surely know after 20 years how to still put on a Brahmin underwear without a knot in it :-)
You are publicly stating: “Actually, I did not think about forwarding or posting his letter as he thinks, but I am just not in step with all these thing. What do you think, should I write him, or just let it go? or you write ? I dont know what to do at this point.”
Well, I know what you should do, I have given you my private Email. You can start writing me there, why do you have to ask Bhima and Das?
From your comment: “should I write him, or just let it go?” I can understand that you are NOT willing to properly communicate with me, even for the last 20 years we had NO communication at all.
Anyway I can accept your decision, to just let it go. I am too much of a headache for you. I was never your “yes-man” or your sold-out wife, like others. THEREFORE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO “chase after him like a henpecked husband after and angry and neglected wife”
20 years YOU DID NOT communicate with me, so I can wait another 20 years, no problem for me, but you are right; I might not survive that long, being dead by that time.
You write: “Give up your anger, it’s unessecary (I still cant spell )) I mean no harm. If this is going to be your reason to kick me away.... well... what can I say. it's not a good reason. You and I have done worst things, this is trivial, give it up, I'm sorry to see you so offended by something like this. Forgive me, let's get on with it. I'm too old ( 73 Yrs. ) for this, so are you”
What can I say? You are writing one thing here, but on the public forum you write the opposite, making fun of me.
Don’t worry, I am NOT angry with you, I am NOT offended, I never was, I rather pity your situation. I will never kick you away, because I always wanted to be your friend but this you never accepted. You always wanted “yes-man” bowing to your ideas and “this” I will never be to you. So perhaps in our next life we can start over to be friends again in Srila Prabhupadas service.
Yes you are right, we are too old now, to waste the little time left. So please also forgive my offenses and lets get on with it. I will always love you, BUT ONLY as a brother and friend in Srila Prabhupadas service only. The more you are following, the more we are friends. The more you are not following, the more we are not friends.
PRABHUPADANUGAS OR BHAKTIVEDANTAS?
(answer to Hansadutta's quibbling ober his titles)
Since you are criticising the Prabhupadanugas, defaming the “title”, calling them a bunch of neophyte over intelligent disciples concocting things, I therefore would like to publicly respond to your defamation.
First of all Prabhupadanugas are NOT a concoction but they are for real, following Srila Prabhupada only, as the name implies. And second they are very successful in preaching against bogus gurus, accepting Srila Prabhupada and His Ritvik-System only.
Prabhupada-anugas are certainly NOT a bunch of neophyte over intelligent disciples concocting their own philosophy as you wrongly imply. But the opposite is the case; they are very intelligent devotees, following ONLY Srila Prabhupada and his Ritvik instruction outlined in his July 9th directive, rejecting all bogus so called IskCON guru frauds, self-appointed rascal acaryas. Our preaching is very successful. More and more people worship Srila Prabhupada and become his disciples. Our success can be seen in Bangalore, where Madhupandit is doing a great service. He makes so many devotees for Srila Prabhupada, without any titles such as Bhaktivedanta or Prabhupadanugas.
Ask any one in the whole world what “the Prabhupadanugas” are, and every one will tell you that they are followers of Srila Prabhupada only. Ask any one in the whole world what “the Bhaktivedantas” are, and half will identify this title with Narayana’s Gopi Bhava club, and the other half will tell you, that’s Hansaduttas clan only.
If any one is concocting than it is you, with your pompous titles such as “as Bhaktivedanta, Bhakti Sastri or Bhakti vaibhava” which you are quoting from the letter Srila Prabhupada has send you. It seems that you are always very fond of titles. We remember not long ago you where calling yourself “Harikirtan-Acarya” and other bogus guru titles. For brevity we will NOT repeat this old stuff here for which you have apologized already. Those artificial titles you and your group have adopted have got to go. It would be best for you not to accept any titles, but become a humble servant of the servants, and follow what Srila Prabhupada tells you, without speculating and interpreting.
Those titles you are quoting, which everyone should accept according to you, are not common titles and they have never been used so far for lack of qualification.
Srila Prabhupada wrote: “Another examination will be held sometimes in 1971 on the four books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and Nectar of Devotion. One who will pass this examination will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations.”
Bhaktivedanta is not just a common name; it is indicative of a title which Srila Prabhupada described in various letters: Bhakti Sastri, Bhakti vaibhava and Bhaktivedanta. To artificially accept such titles without qualifications, without practically completing the required course, that will not help anybody. Putting on a devotional dress without following devotional rules and regulations is just deceiving oneself and others. Srila Prabhupada describes such titles as “transcendental diploma”, which one receives AFTER successfully achieving Krishna consciousness, without falling down. Diploma comes only AFTER the course and AFTER passing the exam, NOT before.
I don’t think that we really have completed the actual course to hold such advanced titles such as Bhaktivedanta, Bhakti Sastri or Bhakti vaibhava. What is the use of such titles if we can not even follow the 4 regulative principles and chant our 16 rounds? If someone artificially adopts the title of Dr. PHD without having the diploma he is called a fraud or cheater. Srila Prabhupada calls the BHAKTIVEDANTA title a “transcendental diploma”. Did you already successfully pass the exam for it?
If there are so many ordinary “Bhaktivedantas” than how do we keep the real BHAKTIVEDANTA (Swami Prabhupada) in the center? In my humble opinion such titles should be reserved for Srila Prabhupada only. We are not qualified to imitate Him.
If many of the conditioned soul “Bhaktivedantas” write their OWN books then there will be CONFUSION: WHO IS THE ACTUAL BHAKTIVEDANTA in time to come.
THE FACT IS – The Bhaktivedanta Title was NOT given BY Srila Prabhupada to ANYONE as of 1977. There were NO TESTS either. It simply was encouragement to READ and STUDY Srila Prabhupada's books. Where, how and when did you pass the exam to decorate yourself with such title? Who gave you that diploma?
Further Srila Prabhupada states: ”Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations.” Are you qualified to initiate disciples?
The Bhaktivedanta Title is a honorary title to especially honour Srila Prabhupada. If conditioned soul “Bhaktivedantas” covet Srila Prabhupadas title, it would be a depreciation of Srila Prabhupada, to which no real follower of Srila Prabhupada will agree. Even if we theoretically accept, that you are qualified to use the BHAKTIVEDANTA title, you should call yourself Bhaktivedanta-Anuga, the humble follower of Bhaktivedanta. You are never BHAKTIVEDANTA, because you are simply not Prabhupada, but a fallen conditioned soul only.
Personally I have nothing against calling myself and our group “The Bhaktivedantas”, but we devotees can NOT delete the prabhupadanugas.eu homepage and all the many references to it found on the internet, just because you don’t like the name. The prabhupadanugas.eu Homepage was registered long time ago, and was not done by me alone, but by a group of devotees. That time it was common, that those who are opposed to bogus IskCon gurus would call himself a Prabhupadanuga, meaning a follower of Prabhupada. This terminology came from USA not from us. Also this terminology is NOT a concoction as you wrongly imply. Both words (prabhupada and anuga) are found in Srila Prabhupadas books, for example Rupanuga or Rupa-anuga. If it is more acceptable for you, you can hyphenate prabhupada-anugas if that helps you.
PLEASE PROVE YOUR ACCUSATION WHY “prabhupada-anuga” IS A CONCOCTION!
Lectures: Nectar of Devotion Lectures: The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, January 9, 1973: 730109ND.BOM:
“We are asking, following the footsteps of predecessor, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpānuga. Therefore we are called rūpānuga. Anuga. Anuga means following. Going, following the footsteps of Rūpa Gosvāmī. So as the, Rūpa Gosvāmī is following his predecessor, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, so we have to follow our predecessor. Then we will be successful.“
So Srila Prabhupada clearly says that Anuga means following, so Prabhupada-Anuga means those who are following Prabhupada. How can you say this is concocted?
WORD FOR WORD TRANSLITERATION
anuga-agraṇīḥ—one of the principal associates;
sa-anugā—with her friends;
rāga-anuga—of spontaneous attachment;
gopikā-anugā hañā nā kaila bhajana –
gopikā—of the gopīs; anugā—follower; hañā—becoming; nā—did not; kaila—perform; bhajana—worship. –
gopikā-anugā – the follower of the gopis
You state that Prabhupada-Anuga is a concoction, but Srila Prabhupada clearly explains that Anugas are followers. To add the suffix Prabhupada to the Anugas is also not wrong. Therefore I humbly beg to differ from your miss-interpretation of the word “Prabhupada-Anuga”
You might not like the title, but it does not really matter, because “following” is more important. You might not like the clothing of the Postman, but it does not matter, the message which the Postman delivers is more important than his clothing or his title.
The “prabhupadanugas.eu” Homepage is on the internet for a long time and is appreciated by 1000sands of devotees worldwide, exposing bogus gurus and delivering Prabhupadas message. You might not like the title, but you should read the message delivered there, than you will know the truth.
You wrote: “So those who purport to be actually, truly honoring Prabhupada, should start by HONORING him with the HONORARY - Name - title, bestowed upon him by his peer Vaishnava community of his time. Honoring his name and accept it for their designation, indicating true allegiance and loyalty to him in practical life.”
Again you are stressing the title only, which is NOT important for me. I certainly will not start to change the title Prabhupada-anugas, which has established itself over the many years. It is now recognized all over the world, and it is supported in Srila Prabhupadas books, as I have pointed out to you already.
>>>> You wrote: “IF YOU START WITH SOMETHING ARTIFICIAL THEN YOU WILL END WITH SOMETHING ARTIFICIAL. I suggest you all start by changing your group's name to THE BHAKTIVEDANTAS , meaning the followers and disciples of A.C. Bhaktivedanta >>>>
Prabhupada-anugas are NOT artificial, they are real for sure, and as their name implies, they are followers of Prabhupada only. So THEY WILL END WITH PRABHUPADA and Srila Prabhupada is not artificial. The Anugas are described by Srila Prabhupada and according to Srila Prabhupada they are NOT a concoction as you have (mis) interpreted. Prabhupada and his followers, called Anugas, are just two words which are combined. Both words are bonafide. PLEASE PROVE THE OPPOSITE!
Srila Prabhupada is NOT honoured by calling oneself a Bhaktivedanta, but Srila Prabhupada will be honoured if we follow his instructions. True allegiance and loyalty to him in practical life means to accept Ritvik-Initiation (as ordered by Prabhupada) and become his disciple by chanting 16 rounds and following the teachings in his unchanged books.
And for this reason I was actually writing you in the first place. I was requested by all those nice Bhaktas here to contact you, to find out, if you are still acting in the capacity of Ritvik-Representative of the Acarya Srila Prabhupada. These new Bhaktas here want to take proper Ritvik-Initiation, as ordered by Srila Prabhupada in His July 9th letter. I can understand if you do not act in this capacity anymore. Therefore I will advice them to ask Kapindra Swami.
Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
and the Prabhupada-anugas
Urdhvaga das (ACBSP)
PS: after quibbling over your title business I got the inspiration to also put a title besides my name (ACBSP) in the hope that you will properly indentify to which group I belong :-)