ISKCON Founder and Acharya - His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
BY: MAHESH RAJA
There are some who say that one can be Diksa guru (Acharya) in future in Iskcon because Srila Prabhupada has stated that one can be guru in many places. But is that siksa guru or Diksa guru?
And - does Srila Prabhupada actually say that one can be Diksa guru in his ISKCON branch? OR - even will there be another self-effulgent acharya at all in this Kali-yuga? And - what will happen in ten thousand years?
The Spiritual Master is also called Acharya.
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 - Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brihaspati.
"By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krishna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement." A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), the spiritual master is also called acharya. Acharyam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acharya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acharya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one's dealings with the acharya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acharya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple. Therefore Krishna advises in Bhagavad-gita (4.34):
tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth." One should fully surrender unto the spiritual master and with service (sevaya) one should approach him for further spiritual enlightenment.”
So let us examine this in detail:
Perhaps the strongest evidence is that one can become a guru if he becomes Mahabhagvata as below. But even then he has to be a prominent acharya to be accepted. And he has to have received the order/authorization from Guru Srila Prabhupada.
Madhya 24.330 - The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
In the Padma Purana, the characteristics of the guru, the bona fide spiritual master, has been described:
mahā-bhāgavata-śreṣṭho
brāhmaṇo vai gurur nṛṇām
sarveṣām eva lokānām
asau pūjyo yathā hariḥ
The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class.
Madhya 24.330 - The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse Purport
When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.
Srila Prabhupada - Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31, 1972
"Self-made guru cannot be guru. He must be authorized by the bona fide guru. Then he's guru. This is the fact...Similarly; bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru."
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, Purport
"One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana."
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975
Prabhupada: "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he is authorized by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
If Srila Prabhupada would have ordered before 1977, then there would be no point in him stating in 1977 ‘when I order’. It was specifically in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said "When I order" not before, so after the year 1977, where is the evidence of that order?
Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan
Prabhupada: "When I order, you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it."
Questions:
Conversations – February 14, 1977, Mayapur
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcāyām eva haraye
pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate
na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu
sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the Brahmana there is no question of Vaishnava.
Conversations - February 6, 1976, Mayapur
Even the jnanis and yogis become...
Prabhupada: What is these jnanis? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate. Therefore so-called jnanis, after many, many births' practical realization, they surrender to Krishna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma. Then he understands that Krishna is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah, very, very rare.
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There are some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hridayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krishna.
Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all other, that "I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king"--all these are thinking like that, they're all nonsense. "I am servant of Krishna"--that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-Krishna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.
Madhya 20.59 - Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science
PURPORT
This verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in the Mahabharata:
dharmaś ca satyaṁ ca damas tapaś ca
amātsaryaṁ hrīs titikṣānasūyā
yajñaś ca dānaṁ ca dhṛtiḥ śrutaṁ ca
vratāni vai dvādaśa brāhmaṇasya
"A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana."
Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:
śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness - these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work." (Bg. 18.42)
In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:
śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
kṣānty-ārjava-virakta yaḥ
jñāna-vijñāna-santoṣāḥ
satyāstikye dviṣaḍ guṇāḥ
"Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brahmana."
Lecture – August 28, 1973, London
So first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaishnava. Brahmana simply knows that "I am spirit soul," aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. By such knowledge one becomes prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief... When there is burden on your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly, this ignorance that "I am this body" is a great burden, a burden upon us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Means when actually one understands that "I am not this body; I am soul," then he has to work so hard for maintaining this body, so he gets relief that "Why I am working so hard for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of life, spiritual life." That is great relief. That is great relief. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. The relief means there is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.
Now we will study what Diksa is because we want to determine if Kanistha or Madhyama can give Diksa.
Madhya 15.108 - The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya
Srila Jiva Gosvami explains Diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):
divyaṁ jñānaṁ yato dadyāt
kuryāt pāpasya saṅkṣayam
tasmād dīkṣeti sā proktā
deśikais tattva-kovidaiḥ
"Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as Diksa."
Madhya 4.111 - Sri Madhavendra Puri’s Devotional Service
"Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination."
But since kanistha adhikari (qualified brahmana) is himself contaminated - how can he give Diksa to another who becomes freed from all material contamination. This is completely illogical!
Bhagavad-gita 7.14 Purport - Knowledge of the Absolute
Another meaning of guna is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself - he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krishna, or His bona fide representative - the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul.
Srimad-Bhagavatam 9.19.25 Purport - King Yayati Achieves Liberation
The word vidhuta, meaning "cleansed," is very significant. Everyone in this material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango 'sya). Because we are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna, by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva, transcending the sattva-guna.
Note: this verse is often misinterpreted that Kanistha can be Diksa guru. All it is stating is Madhyama and Kanistha can accept disciples – that is all. It is not mentioned as giving diksa. “Insufficient guidance” means it is talking of siksa (instruction)
Nectar of Instruction 5
In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaishnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaishnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.
In Srila Prabhupada’s will he states that provided the new director is my initiated disciple following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books...”
This means any new “Acharya” cannot control his society. Srila Prabhupada is in charge of ISKCON forever.
Srila Prabhupada's Will
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/will.html
The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) executive directors acting at one time.
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
09-07-77 - All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/ritvik-letter-july9th.html
In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee's initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace's "Initiated Disciples" book.
SB 3.4.26 Purport - Vidura Approaches Maitreya
Although one may be well versed in the transcendental science, one should be careful about the offense of maryada-vyatikrama, or impertinently surpassing a greater personality. According to scriptural injunction one should be very careful of transgressing the law of maryada-vyatikrama because by so doing one loses his duration of life, his opulence, fame and piety and the blessings of the entire world. To be well versed in the transcendental science necessitates awareness of the techniques of spiritual science. Uddhava, being well aware of all these technicalities of transcendental science, advised Vidura to approach Maitreya Rishi to receive transcendental knowledge. Vidura wanted to accept Uddhava as his spiritual master, but Uddhava did not accept the post because Vidura was as old as Uddhava's father and therefore Uddhava could not accept him as his disciple, especially when Maitreya was present nearby. The rule is that in the presence of a higher personality one should not be very eager to impart instructions, even if one is competent and well versed. So Uddhava decided to send an elderly person like Vidura to Maitreya, another elderly person, but he was well versed also because he was directly instructed by the Lord while He was about to quit this mortal world. Since both Uddhava and Maitreya were directly instructed by the Lord, both had the authority to become the spiritual master of Vidura or anyone else, but Maitreya, being elderly, had the first claim to becoming the spiritual master, especially for Vidura, who was much older than Uddhava. One should not be eager to become a spiritual master cheaply for the sake of profit and fame, but should become a spiritual master only for the service of the Lord. The Lord never tolerates the impertinence of maryada-vyatikrama. One should never pass over the honor due to an elderly spiritual master in the interests of one's own personal gain and fame. Impertinence on the part of the pseudo spiritual master is very risky to progressive spiritual realization.
Srila Prabhupada is still giving the holy name from his books preaching throughout the world:
Lectures – October 28, 1975, Nairobi
Brahmananda: He's asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krishna consciousness.
Prabhupada: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.
Antya 7.12 The Meeting of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Vallabha Bhatta
"in the Dvapara-yuga one could satisfy Krishna or Vishnu only by worshiping opulently according to the pancharatriki system, but in the age of Kali one can satisfy and worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead Hari simply by chanting His holy name." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura explains that unless one is directly empowered by the causeless mercy of Krishna, one cannot become the spiritual master of the entire world (jagad-guru). One cannot become an acharya simply by mental speculation. The true acharya presents Krishna to everyone by preaching the holy name of the Lord throughout the world. Thus the conditioned souls, purified by chanting the holy name, are liberated from the blazing fire of material existence. In this way, spiritual benefit grows increasingly full, like the waxing moon in the sky. The true acharya, the spiritual master of the entire world, must be considered an incarnation of Krishna's mercy. indeed, he is personally embracing Krishna. He is therefore the spiritual master of all the varnas (brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya and sudra) and all the ashrams (brahmacharya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa). Since he is understood to be the most advanced devotee, he is called Paramahamsa Thakura. Thakura is a title of honor offered to the Paramahamsa. Therefore one, who acts as an acharya, directly presenting Lord Krishna by spreading His name and fame, is also to be called paramahamsa-thakura.
Conversations, Morning Walk, January 4, 1976, Nellore
Devotee (2): Prabhupada, they said that if Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wanted Krishna consciousness in the Western countries, why didn't He go there Himself? That's what they told us.
Prabhupada: So He left the credit for me. (laughter)
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Prabhupada: He loves His devotee more than Himself.
Harikesa: Why didn't Krishna kill everybody at the Battle of Kurukshetra?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yashodanandana: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Krishna, by His simple desire He could kill. (laughter) He said therefore, bhavisyatvam, prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama, sarvatra pracara haibe. He is leaving the task for somebody else.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is preaching Lord Chaitanya’s message “gaura vani pracarine” and delivering western countries pascatya-desa-tarine
Songs of the Vaishnava Acharyas -- Śrīla Prabhupāda Praṇati
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namaḥ—obeisances; oṁ—address; viṣṇu-pādāya—unto him who is at the feet of Lord Viṣṇu; kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya—who is very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa; bhu-tale—on the earth; śrīmate—all-beautiful; bhaktivedanta-svāmin—A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami; iti—thus; nāmine—who is named.
I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
namaḥ—obeisances; te—unto you; sārasvate deve—servant of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī; gaura-vāṇī—the message of Lord Caitanya; pracāriṇe—who are preaching, nirviśeṣa—(from) impersonalism; śūnya-vādi—(from) voidism; pāścātya—Western; deśa—countries; tāriṇe—who are delivering.
Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvatī Gosvāmī. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.
Lectures – August 10, 1971, London
So offering respect to the spiritual master means to remember some of his activities. Some of his activities. Just like you offer respect to your spiritual master, namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine. This is the activity of your spiritual master that he is preaching the message of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and he's a disciple of Saraswati Thakura. Namas te sarasvate. You should pronounce it sarasvate, not sarasvati. Saraswati is the, my spiritual master. So his disciple is sarasvate. Sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine. These are the activities. What are the activities of your spiritual master? He's simply preaching the message of Lord Chaitanya. That is his business.
Can we have gaps in the parampara? Look who is prominent now. So who is going to be prominent in the future with all the Srila Prabhupada books all over the world?
Who are we all quoting? Srila Prabhupada!
Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968
Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sun god, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acharyas, and follow from HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Note: It is not that Srila Prabhupada did not hear the reporter but he chose to answer the way he did because success of his Guru maharaja was Srila Prabhupada himself. So the Success (or) was due to His guru maharaja. That’s it!
Another point is when he says “I shall live for my books” when you hear the tape it actually is I shall live FROM my books.
Conversations, Press Conference, July 16, 1975, San Francisco
Prabhupada: I will never die.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Maharaja? I think... Here is.
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975
Prabhupada: "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he is ordered by his Guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
Lectures, January 13, 1969, Los Angeles
...vani and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vani means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acharyas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krishna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acharyas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master that is living.
Adi 1.35 -- The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.8 Purport - Answers by Citing the Lord’s Version
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.
Ten Thousand Years?
Conversation in car in New Vrindavan, June 21, 1976
Prabhupada: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpana-marjanam. When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent per cent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth per cent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Krishna movement. Literatures are selling; they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on--in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-classes, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class--tenth-class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brahmanas, sages, and saintly persons--no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?
Srimad Bhagavatam 8.5.23 Purport - The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection
When Krishna appeared, He gave His orders, and when Krishna Himself appeared as a devotee, as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He showed us the path by which to cross the ocean of Kali-yuga. That is the path of the Hare Krishna movement. When Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared, He ushered in the era for the sankirtana movement. It is also said that for ten thousand years this era will continue. This means that simply by accepting the sankirtana movement and chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, the fallen souls of this Kali-yuga will be delivered. After the Battle of Kurukshetra, at which Bhagavad-gita was spoken, Kali-yuga continues for 432,000 years, of which only 5,000 years have passed. Thus there is still a balance of 427,000 years to come. Of these 427,000 years, the 10,000 years of the sankirtana movement inaugurated by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu 500 years ago provide the opportunity for the fallen souls of Kali-yuga to take to the Krishna consciousness movement, chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra and thus be delivered from the clutches of material existence and return home, back to Godhead.
Antya 3.50 The Glories of Srila Haridasa Thakura
From this statement by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu we can clearly understand that the word yavana does not refer only to a particular class of men. Anyone who is against the behaviour of the Vedic principles is called a yavana. Such a yavana may be in India or outside of India. As described here, the symptom of yavanas is that they are violent killers of cows and brahminical culture. We offer our prayers to the Lord by saying, namo brahmanya-devaya go-brahmana-hitaya ca. The Lord is the maintainer of brahminical culture. His first concern is to see to the benefit of cows and brahmanas. As soon as human civilization turns against brahminical culture and allows unrestricted killing of cows, we should understand that men are no longer under the control of the Vedic culture but are all yavanas and mlecchas. It is said that the Krishna consciousness movement will be prominent within the next ten thousand years, but after that people will all become mlecchas and yavanas. Thus at the end of the yuga, Krishna will appear as the Kalki avatara and kill them without consideration.
Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio
Prabhupada: No. Hare Krishna will be finished within ten thousand years. There will be no more Hare Krishna.
Allen Ginsberg: Ah. So what will be left?
Prabhupada: Nothing. Left will be I'll kill you and eat you, and you shall kill me. You shall eat me. That will be left.
Allen Ginsberg: After ten thousand years?
Prabhupada: Yes. There will be no grain, no milk, no sugar, no fruit. So I have to eat you, and you will have to eat me. Full facility for meat-eating. (laughter) Full facility. Krishna is very kind. He'll give you facility: "All right. Why cows and calves? You take your own son. Yes. Eat nicely." Just like serpents, snakes, they eat their own off springs, tigers. So this will happen.
Allen Ginsberg: Kali eats her own...
Prabhupada: Yes. And there will be no brain to understand, no preacher, nothing else. Go. Go to, to the dog. And then Krishna will come: "All right, let me kill you so that you are saved." So...
Allen Ginsberg: But you see it as actually a historical thing of ten thousand years for the chanting, of the diminishing chanting of...
Prabhupada: Yes. These are...
Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think more people will chant Hare Krishna or fewer?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. More people. Now it will increase.
Allen Ginsberg: Until?
Prabhupada: Up to ten thousand years.
Allen Ginsberg: And then?
Prabhupada: Then diminish.
Allen Ginsberg: So what is the purpose of right now, a world increase...
Prabhupada: People will take advantage of this up to ten thousand years. Then they will...
Allen Ginsberg: So this is like the last rope, the last gasp.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. So the sooner we take to shelter, shelter of Krishna consciousness, is better.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, according to Vedic theory, when did this yuga begin? According to this Vedic theory... Or... This is sastra?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: When did this yuga...?
Prabhupada: Begin from this Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He introduced five hundred years ago, and it will continue now.
Hayagriva: Kali-yuga.
Prabhupada: Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years ago.
Allen Ginsberg: Began five thousand years ago.
Kirtanananda: But this wave within Kali-yuga, in which Hare Krishna increases and then diminishes, is about ten thousand years and that began five hundred years ago.
Prabhupada: Kali-yuga, the duration of life of Kali-yuga is 432,000's of years. Out of that, we have passed five thousand years. There is balance, 427,000's of years. Out of that, ten thousand years is nothing.
Allen Ginsberg: Where is all this?
Prabhupada: Vedic literature.
Allen Ginsberg: What...?
Prabhupada: Padma Purana, Puranas.
Allen Ginsberg: Bhagavata Purana.
Prabhupada: Bhagavata Purana.
Allen Ginsberg: Has the detailed analysis of what goes on within the Kali-yuga?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes. I'll read you sometimes.
Allen Ginsberg: There are translations of that. There are some translations of that.
Prabhupada: Yes. In the Twelfth Canto, the Kali-yuga descriptions are there.
Allen Ginsberg: Twelfth Canto.
Prabhupada: Twelfth Canto. And you will find that all the descriptions are coming to be true. Just like there is one statement, svikaram eva udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Now that is being done. And lavanyam kesa-dharanam: "People will think that he has become very beautiful by keeping bunch of hairs." That is coming true. These are written there. All things are there in Bhagavata history.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, in the Bhagavata Purana is there also provision for the Chaitanya cult?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Krishna-varnam tvisa Krishnam. We have given that in that book, our Teachings of Lord Chaitanya. That is the first quotation there.
Allen Ginsberg: So it's on this quotation from Bhagavata Purana that Chaitanya built His system?
Prabhupada: No, no. That is program, already presented, and He came to execute the program. Just like our meeting is already programmed. I come and execute it. That's all. That was previous. Clearly it is said, " 'In the Kali-yuga the Supreme Lord comes as one who always chants the holy name of Sri Krishna, who is Sri Krishna Himself, whose complexion is yellow.' Srimad-Bhagavatam, Eleventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, 32nd verse."
Allen Ginsberg: It's in there.
Prabhupada: So we have accepted Lord Chaitanya as Krishna not fanatically. There is evidence in Mahabharata, in Upanishads, in Puranas, in Bhagavata, in all Vedic scripture.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, within this period of ten thousand years, only those who hear Krishna's name and worship Krishna by chanting...
Prabhupada: Yes. Kirtanad eva Krishnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet. That is also stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Allen Ginsberg: So only those who practice Krishna chanting can attain moksa.
Prabhupada: They become immediately liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.
Allen Ginsberg: And everybody else gets involved deeper and deeper in the yuga.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the sastras, they should take to this Krishna consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures. You'll find in the Bhagavata, There is a history of Chandragupta, and "The Yavanas will become kings." That means English occupation, Mohammedan occupation. Everything is there. And Buddha's appearance, kikatesu bhavisyati. Kikatesu means in the Bihar province in India. Bhavisyati. Because Bhagavata Purana was written five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,600 years ago. So therefore it is stated, bhavisyati: "In future, just in the beginning of Kali-yuga, Lord will appear as Buddha. His mother's name will be Anjana, and his business will be to cheat the atheists."
Allen Ginsberg: To cheat the atheists.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sammohaya sura-dvisam. Sura-dvisam means atheists. Surat. Sura-dvisam means those who are envious of Lord's devotees. That means atheist. So to bewilder them. What is that bewildering? This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void. There is no God. But what I say, you follow. Yes. That's all right." But he is God. Is it not cheating?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.
Prabhupada: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.
Allen Ginsberg: No. He doesn't say there's no God either. He says...
Prabhupada: That's it. That's anyway.
Allen Ginsberg: He says, all conceptions of the existence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the non-existence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the existence of a supreme self, as well as all conceptions of the non-existence of the supreme self are equally arbitrary, being only conceptions.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is a jugglery of words. So his principle was that they did not believe in God. So still the Buddhists say, "You don't believe in God." So but they are worshiping God, Lord Buddha. There are so many temples. In the same way, as we worship. So this is transcendental cheating.
Allen Ginsberg: Transcendental cheating.
Prabhupada: (chuckling) Just like sometimes father has to cheat his child. That is not cheating. That is welfare. But apparently it (looks) likes cheating. A child is insistent on some point. "Yes, yes. You are all right. But you do this like this. Yes, you are very good boy." Like that. But Vaishnava, in Vaishnava literature, in Vedic literature, he is God. The godless worshiping God in a different way. If there is nothing, why they should worship Buddha even?
Allen Ginsberg: They don't... Well, strictly speaking, one does not worship Buddha.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, they have many big, big temples in Burma and Japan.
Conversations, July 22, 1973, London
Prabhupada: The politicians, they (say that) "These books are useless. Throw them in the water." They say like that publicly. They are not interested. Rather, this movement, as I have now begun with my disciples, European, American boys, they're... They are not very satisfied, the present politicians. They are not very satisfied. They don't want. Everywhere this, more or less the same mentality, but it is our duty on behalf of Krishna to push on this movement. So we are doing, and we are getting response. It is not without response. It will increase. That is also stated, that for ten thousand years Krishna consciousness movement will increase. Yes.
Syamasundara: Ten thousand years.
Prabhupada: Within ten thousand years, if they become Krishna conscious, then life is successful. After ten thousand years, the gloomy picture of Kali-yuga will come. Still there is time. Ten thousand years is not small period. So we have passed five thousand years. So still ten thousand. We have got to the fifteen thousand years. Kali-yuga's duration of life is four hundred thousand, four hundred and twenty-seven thousand. Char-lakh murti saja. (?) Yes.
Conversations, June 5, 1976, Los Angeles
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, when I first came to this, to your movement, the first thing I was told is that Lord Chaitanya’s movement in this age will, like a moon, rise for ten thousand years. I was told that number, ten thousand years. Is that true?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Ramesvara: And then after that, they will...
Prabhupada: This movement will go for ten thousand years without any impediment.
Ramesvara: So that means increasing, because it's the nature of the spiritual energy.
Prabhupada: It increases; you should take this opportunity. You work sincerely; it will increase, it will increase.
Ramesvara: Ten thousand years, there is a good opportunity to...
Prabhupada: Many fallen souls will be delivered back to home, back to Godhead.
Tamala Krishna: Very encouraging.
Ramesvara: You once said that Christianity will die out. We will be the only religion left.
Prabhupada: I do not remember that.
Ramesvara: Someone told me like that.
Prabhupada: Christianity's already dead. We are purchasing the churches.
Tamala Krishna: That means dead.
Hari-sauri: And their priests are coming to join us as well.
Prabhupada: See, this temple, this was closed. There were no men. And now balcony. In the same place, the same countrymen. That is the proof. This building. These boys and girls and men, they are not imported from India.
Tamala Krishna: They are formerly Christians and Jews.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: These demons that are trying to challenge us, they cannot stop our movement for ten thousand years.
Prabhupada: What is their challenge? They have no, nothing to challenge. Unless they are violent. That much they can do, like demons.
Conversations, Morning Walk, June 11, 1976, Los Angeles
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes. Yes. Vietnam. It is proof. When the Vietnam is attacked, American soldiers, they began to fly, flee away, became afraid. Naturally. They were not soldiers. They have no fighting spirit. By force they have been made soldiers. Let them take to Krishna consciousness. America will be saved. (japa)
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, you said yesterday, or a few days ago, that this movement will go on unimpeded for ten thousand years, so...
Prabhupada: Yes, provided we keep it uncontaminated. You should take this opportunity.
Ramesvara: So after ten years we have gotten so many devotees and so many houses, so I can't imagine how big this movement will be after ten thousand years.
Prabhupada: Yes. You'll get the government.
Ramesvara: The whole world will be delivered?
Prabhupada: Yad yad acarati sresthah. America will be the best; people will follow. They are already following--skyscraper building, that's all. Any nation in the world, they are all aspiring to have skyscraper buildings. India has done? In Bombay?
Ramesvara: Yes.
Prabhupada: Full of skyscraper buildings. Now they are thinking this is opulence, skyscraper building. When you are giving it up, no more skyscraper building, the others are imitating. Just like in this quarter you cannot construct skyscraper building. They don't want it. Now others are imitating: "Let us have skyscraper building like America." (japa)
Ramesvara: This building is only two stories, even though it has three windows.
Prabhupada: No, no, why two story? There is ground floor, first floor, second floor, third floor.
Ramesvara: One of the floors has two windows, top and bottom. But it's just one floor. Someone went inside and looked.
Prabhupada: Oh. Oh, that is not floor. There is no ceiling.
Ramesvara: No, just three steps up.
Prabhupada: Anyway...
Ramesvara: All the instructions for the future--like you said that one day even we will have the government--how to run the government, everything is explained in your books.
Prabhupada: Yes. I think like that. (laughs) Is there mention, "The slaughterhouse must stop"?
Ramesvara: You've given all the major policies for the future government, Krishna consciousness government.
Prabhupada: Let us hope. (end)
Conversations, June 21, 1976, Toronto
Prabhupada: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpana-marjanam. When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent per cent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Krishna movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on--in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-classes, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class--tenth-class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brahmanas, sages, saintly persons--no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?
Conversations, January 21, 1977, Bhuvaneswar
Hari-sauri: Is our goal to actually establish Vedic principles back into society again at large?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: Of course.
Prabhupada: That will be Satya-yuga. Again the Vedic principles will be established after finishing this Kali-yuga. And that is Satya-yuga. That is going on. Just after summer, there is winter. There is... After winter, there is summer.
Ramesvara: But this is extraordinary. Lord Chaitanya’s movement, the ten thousand years of His movement that is a special exception for the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupada: Special for this millennium. But the thing is going on like that, rotating.
Ramesvara: But in general, first it gets more and more degraded. Then it's all finished.
Prabhupada: Yes. Unless there is degradation, there is no question of improvement. So this is going on. This is nature's way, bhutva bhutva praliyate, appearance and disappearance.
Ramesvara: Now, this Krishna conscious government... Will many of the things that are going on in America, like schools and education, teaching people to read and write...
Prabhupada: They'll have to reform.
Ramesvara: That will all continue, but it will be adjusted so that Krishna consciousness...
Prabhupada: Yes, Gurukula, Gurukula education.
Ramesvara: Still we'll be teaching subjects like history and math.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Without teaching, how the human society will exist? There must be.
Hari-sauri: No, he's talking about some of the subjects they teach now.
Ramesvara: Material science as well as spiritual science?
Prabhupada: No. No, no. There is no need of so-called material science--how to kill children in the womb. These things will be kicked out. Nonsense.
Ramesvara: Do you think that they will adopt Indian medicine over Western medicine, things like that? Because there has to be some varnasrama.
Prabhupada: No, medicine, if it is actually medicine, it will be accepted. It doesn't matter whether it is Indian or Western. If it is medicine it will be accepted.
Ramesvara: So that kind of research is in the mode of goodness.
Prabhupada: That is already there. We have to make little research. It, already there. There are books, Ayurvedic books. They are very nice. Everything can be done. Dhanvantari. It is given by Dhanvantari avatara, incarnation of Krishna.
Ramesvara: You have written in the First Canto that we welcome scientists, doctors...
Prabhupada: Yes, if it is beneficial.
Ramesvara: We welcome all these people if they dovetail their work for Krishna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: So it's not that these...
Prabhupada: We do not approve anything which is not actually beneficial. Otherwise it doesn't matter, homeopathic or allopathic. But there is standard medicine given by Dhanvantari.
Ramesvara: Yes. But what about certain technological advancements like airplanes and automobiles?
Prabhupada: There are subtler aeroplanes. Aeroplane is mentioned in the sastras. Now they are working on machine, but there are aeroplanes which can work on mantra.
Ramesvara: But that science is lost.
Prabhupada: Not lost. It is there.
Hari-sauri: It's hidden.
Ramesvara: We can't practice that.
Prabhupada: No, we can practice what is called akasa patala. This book is there in Germany. It was purchased by the Germans.
Ramesvara: But do you think that the Vedic sciences will be revived as our movement becomes...
Prabhupada: No, no, our main purpose is to revive Krishna consciousness. In favor of this Krishna consciousness, whatever is available, beneficial, we shall adopt.
Ramesvara: Yes.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Ramesvara: In other words, we want to reorganize all of society so that they develop Krishna consciousness.
Prabhupada: Krishna consciousness. That's it. We do not hate anything. That is not our business. Just like we utilizing this. So it is modern, scientific gift. So we can utilize it for spreading Krishna consciousness. We do not say... We are not so bigot--"No, no. It is material. We shall not touch it." We are not such fool.
Room Conversation, April 5, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Improve. Not for the time being. For ten thousand years.
Giriraja: Yes. Out of 427,000 years I was taking that 10,000 as for the time being.
Prabhupada: It is nothing sport.(?)
Tamala Krishna: Srila Prabhupada, where is the mention of that ten thousand years?
Prabhupada: That I have heard it. Maybe in the Bhagavata. Such a nice thing. Alone in this world I am struggling, and the so-called intelligent persons, they will not come. They have business. Why? If it is actually beneficial to the human society, why I should alone try? I will go on trying so long I'll live. There will be no checking of... But what kind of intelligent persons there are? (Govindam record in background) It has been approved by intelligent men like... From our section. Most wretched rogues. They do work. They are not so. They are intelligent. They have rejected all these "Lord" ideas and the... Because they have sinned, all humbug. Especially in the Western countries, in the Christian world, what is there? It is bogus. I have condemned it. You have seen that book? One Christian boy inquired. Have you got the copy? Bring. (pause) We shall go on playing govindam adi-purusam tam aham. People may hear or not hear. We don't mind.
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