The Rescuer Must be Liberated
BY: MAHESH RAJA
Dec 28, UK (SUN) — This is a continuation of my earlier posting, "Suria dasa's Audacious Proposal.
Bg 7.14 Purport - Knowledge of the Absolute:
"Another meaning of guna is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself--he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul."
Bg 7.14 Purport - Knowledge of the Absolute
"Another meaning of guna is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself--he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul."
Suriya das Prabhu quotes:
"A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession." (New York, 26 April, 1968)
Yes they CAN **ACT AS** in Officiating (Ritvik) Acarya capacity. The disciples are Srila Prabhupada’s, NOT of the one who ACTS AS guru or Acarya.
However, they CAN NOT give DIKSA to Madhyama adhikari as they are “less qualified or not liberated” (refer to my article).
Srila Prabhupada is THE Acarya. He not only ACTS AS but is FACTUALLY THE LIBERATED ACARYA. The BONAFIDE rescuer.
Bhagavad-gita 7.14 Purport:
"Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer MUST be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul."
HOW can you expect one who ACTS AS acarya who is a (less qualified or not liberated) conditioned soul himself give DIKSA to Madhyama Adhikari? Can you give something to ANOTHER if you YOURSELF do NOT possess?
Krishna is NOT the property of CONDITIONED soul to transfer Him to another’s heart.
Diksa is illustrated graphically here. Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform, this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki:
Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
"Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva's mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one's own heart."
The ONLY way to initiate is ON BEHALF of the Acarya Srila Prabhupada as a FORMALITY. The disciples ARE Srila Prabhupada’s, NOT his. Hence, Srila Prabhupada set up the Ritvik system July 9th, 1977 and mentioned very clearly the disciples are Srila Prabhupada’s. Srila Prabhupada then initiates at MADHYAMA adhikari stage. This makes ONE initiator throughtout the process.
Even from PRACTICAL point of view disciples belong to one who gives discipline to them please (refer to my article).
You can NOT NOT NOT have one initiating guru (less qualified or not liberated) then expect Srila Prabhupada will give DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage to you. These THEN makes TWO Diksa gurus: one initiates at FORMALITY and another LIBERATED (Srila Prabhupada) at Madhyama adhikari stage. That is against the sastra.
Caitanya-caritamrta Adi lila 1.35 - The Spiritual Masters:
"A devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden."
Krsna Book 80 - The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana:
"The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one."
Suria dasa's audacious proposal is he wants to get rid of Srila Prabhupada and REPLACE him with bogus GBC voted conditioned soul “Diksa” gurus. We have PROVED his conditioned soul “Diksa” guru theory is completely bogus. He tried to justify Srila Prabhupada’s quote “ who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession. “ but it backfired. The initiator is ONE.
So let us ask him TWO questions:
1) EXACTLY when did Srila Prabhupada EVER state that he has STOPPED giving DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage to the countless generations of devotees still to come? (refer to my article).
2) Since NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada was EVER given that they ARE Acarya (Uttama Adhikari) HOW can they give DIKSA? I am NOT talking of FORMALITY of initiation. (Refer to my article).
Conclusion:
The question of who gives DIKSA in ISKCON next after Srila Prabhupada ONLY arises IF it is ***PROVED*** beyond doubt that Srila Prabhupada is NOT capable of giving DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage. Madhyama adhikari is the RECIPIENT of DIKSA. We are NOT talking of FORMALITY initiation.
Srila Prabhupada 75-08-04 Letter to Madhudvisa:
"This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want."
Many of the quotes below may be repeated, but I have also added some extra notes. Please read below:
SB 1.7.22 P - The Son of Drona Punished:
"The spiritual master, by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence."
Srila Prabhupada and his words are on the transcendental platform therefore his purports to the SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM is the CURRENT LINK. AS LONG AS WE HAVE PRABHUPADA'S PURPORTS TO THE SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM HE WILL BE OUR CURRENT LINK BECAUSE **THE REAL** MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM ARE ***HIS PURPORTS***.
SB 2.9.7
"As already stated, Brahma is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS COMING DOWN BY DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION, and in order to receive THE REAL MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM one should approach THE CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession."
CC ADI 1.35
"There is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple."
Srila Prabhupada is IDENTICAL with his PURPORTS.
SB 1.2.18 P - Divinity and Divine Service:
"Bhagavata book and person are identical."
Adi 1.99 T - The Spiritual Masters
"One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion."
Adi 1.100 - The Spiritual Masters
"Through the actions of these two bhagavatas the Lord instills the mellows of transcendental loving service into the heart of a living being, and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee's love."
68-05-28 Letter to Malati:
"Similarly, the Spiritual Master also can be present wherever the disciple wants. A Spiritual Master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of places by the principle of relay monitoring."
Suria das prabhu wrote:
“And this understanding IN no way supports the outlandish claim of the Ritviks that Srila Prabhupada will remain diksa guru even after he left the material world. Srila Prabhupada can appoint a Guru while he is around but he did not do so as he said... "on my order'' one can actually be Guru. But since he did not order, it means one can be a Guru after Srila Prabhupada departs where it is confirmed as: Because in my presence one should not become guru".
So AT LAST we have an ADMISSION Srila Prabhupada DID NOT ORDER. Thank you very much, Suria das Prabhu.
Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan:
Prabhupada: "When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it."
“When I order” -- NO ORDER WAS GIVEN
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupada: "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru."
Physical presence of the spiritual master is NOT required. We have to choose the PROMINENT and Srila Prabhupada IS the PROMINENT ACARYA .
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968:
"Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to."
Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.8 Purport - Answers by Citing the Lord' s Version:
"The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent."
Srila Prabhupada is ever present in his Murti (Deity) form - in ALL temples we do Guru Puja to HIM. Offer Vyasa Puja to HIM. His books are there. His CDs are there. Srila Prabhupada’s words are there - his instructions. The word used above is “APPARENTLY absent” so it does not mean Srila Prabhupada is no longer present he is “Apparently” absent.
Srila Prabhupada's Lecture, January 13, 1969, Los Angeles:
"…the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living."
Caitanya-caritamrta Adi lila 1.35 - The Spiritual Masters:
"There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple."
The disciplic succession even in Srila Prabhupada’s books do NOT have this Maharaja that Maharaja etc added to it. 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA." That’s it.
Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Upendra, February 13, 1968:
"There are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation. One is called Brahma Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession from Brahma; another Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri Sampradaya; another is coming down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka Sampradaya; another Sampradaya is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or Visnu Swami. These are four bona fide Sampradayas that are accepted by the bona fide spiritualists. The Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original neither the Impersonalist Sampradaya or party can help us. At the present moment there are so many Sampradayas, but we have to test them about their method of disciplic understanding. Anyway, all the four Sampradayas above mentioned, they are after worshipping the Supreme Lord Visnu, in His different Expansions, and some of them are in favor of worshipping Radha Krishna. In the later age the Brahma Sampradaya was handed down though Madhva Acarya; in this Madhva Acarya disciplic succession came Isvara Puri. This Isvara Puri was accepted as Spiritual Master of Lord Caitanya. Therefore, we being in disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we are known as the Madhva Sampradaya. And because Lord Caitanya appeared in Bengal, which country is called Gaudadesa, our Sampradaya party is known as Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. But all these Sampradayas are non-different from one another because they believe and worship the Supreme Lord. Any other Sampradaya who are Impersonalist or voidist or non-devotee, they are rejected by us. MY GURU MAHARAJA WAS IN THE 10TH GENERATION FROM LORD CAITANYA. WE ARE 11TH FROM LORD CAITANYA. THE DISCIPLIC SUCESSION IS AS FOLLOWS: 1. SRI KRISHNA, 2. BRAHMA, 3. NARADA, 4. VYASA, 5. MADHVA, 6. PADMANABHA, 7. NRIHARI, 8. MADHAVA, 9. AKSHOBHYA, 10. JAYATIRTHA, 11. JNANASINDHU, 12. PURUSOTTAMA, 13. VIDYANIDHI, 14. RAJENDRA, 15. JAYADHARMA, 16. PURUSOTTAMA, 17. VYASATIRTHA, 18. LAKSMIPATI, 19. MADHAVENDRA PURI, 20. ISVARA PURI (ADVAITA, NITYANANDA) 21. SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, 22. (SVARUPA, SANATANA) RUPA, 23.(JIVA) RAGHUNATH, 24. KRISHNA DASA, 25. NAROTTAMA, 26. VISVANATHA, 27. (BALADEVA.) JAGANNATHA, 28. (BHAKTIVINODE) GAURA-KISORA, 29. SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI, SRI BARSHABHANAVIDAYITADAS, 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA."
Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.29.17 Purport - Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila:
"In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS."
Isopanisad 12:
"The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service--which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead--one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA--"ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA" -- and Krsna's statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, "This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession." Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These rogues are the MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION."
Srila Prabhupada IS our BONA FIDE spiritual master from TIME ETERNAL. And those who reject him are deviants who are after PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT personal worship, money, followers.
Bg 4.42 P - Transcendental Knowledge:
A BONA FIDE spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from TIME ETERNAL, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore, follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself and BEWARE OF SELF-INTERESTED PEOPLE AFTER PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT WHO DEVIATE OTHERS FROM THE ACTUAL PATH.
namah--obeisances; om--address; visnu-padaya--unto him who is at the feet of Lord Visnu; krsna-presthaya--who is very dear to Lord Krsna; bhu-tale--on the earth; srimate--all-beautiful; bhaktivedanta-svamin--A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami; iti--thus; namine--who is named.
I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śunyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
namah--obeisances; te--unto you; sarasvate deve--servant of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami; gaura-vani--the message of Lord Caitanya; pracarine--who are preaching, nirvisesa--(from) impersonalism; sunya-vadi--(from) voidism; pascatya--Western; desa--countries; tarine--who are delivering.
Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.
Sooooo-----WHO is DELIVERING?
Suria das prabhu writes:
[Mahesh Prabhu wrote:
"Seen as Uttama Adhikari" is NOT the same as ACCEPT the Uttama Adhikari. That is just jugglery of words."
What is this word jugglery? I see Srila Prabhupada as an Uttama Adhikari, what is the difference between ''seen'' or "accept"? ]
Suria das Prabhu wrote EARLIER:
“Similarly if any of Srila Prabhupada's disciple or anyone is preaching and inspiring devotees than he can be seen as a Uttama Adikari by his respective disciples. It does not matter if such a Spiritual master comes from ISKCON, Gaudiya math or anywhere else, the main point here is "PREACHING".”
So we can see all Suria das prabhus attempt is to bring UTTAMA ADHIKARI Srila Prabhupada to his level of conditioned soul “gurus”. This is all bogus. HOW can you see conditioned soul “gurus” manufactured by fake GBC to be “seen” as Uttama Adhikari?
They are opportunist, they use Srila Prabhupada’s fame to gain FREE servants , money, hidden sex life etc . Bait and switch - they say something nice about Srila Prabhupada but they want you to become THEIR disciples use you and screw money and out of you. It is a Con trick.
760628bj.nv Conversations:
Pusta Krsna: What about the so-called gurus that take a little bit here and a little bit there?
Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. If one does not speak what Krsna speaks, he is not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done?
Pusta Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but they'll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He's most dangerous. He's most dangerous. He is opportunist. He's finding out customer, something here... According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. So he is not guru. He's a servant. He wants to serve the so-called disciples so that he may be satisfied and pay him something. He's servant. He's not guru. Guru is the master. You cannot disobey guru. But if you become a servant, you want to please the disciple by flattering him to get his money, then you are not guru, you are servant. Just like a servant pleases the master. He's not guru. He's servant. So our position should be servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means heavy. You cannot utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.
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