WHEN I Order
BY: MAHESH RAJA
In response to Tamohara Prabhu’s recent article, “Pertinent to the Directives of Srila Prabhupada“, regarding the hybrid gurus you propose, I do not see how that is feasible. Let’s consider the following:
1) From the year 1966 to 1977 Srila Prabhupada did NOT give ANY order to anyone SPECIFICALLY “YOU become guru,” so HOW can you say that they are diksa guru?
IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977 then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order.
It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977 WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?
Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan:
Prabhupada: “When I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
“When I order”– NO ORDER WAS GIVEN. On the contrary, the ONLY instruction that followed TWO months AFTER was as per 9th July 1977 Letter, that they were to act in the capacity of Ritvik Representative of Acarya and the disciples initiated would be Srila Prabhupada’s, NOT theirs.
Even Tamal Krsna Gosvami admitted they were conditioned souls and consequently not qualified. (Refer to my previous article, Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON)
2) I have mentioned in my article, “Diksa Given to Madhyam-adhikari is Not a Formality“, the RECEPIENT of DIKSA is Madhyama Adhikari — so how can they give Diksa voted in by conditioned soul fake GBC?
HOW are they BONAFIDE (genuine) if they REQUIRE to be VOTED IN as GURU by a group of conditioned souls?
3) EXACTLY when did Srila Prabhupada EVER state that he has STOPPED giving DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage to the countless generations of devotees still to come? (Refer to my article). When this IS the case, where is the NEED for anyone else to give DIKSA in the presence of OUR BONAFIDE DIKSA Guru Srila Prabhupada?
4) Since the initiator is one throughout (refer to my article), HOW can the conditioned soul guru opportunists VOTED IN by fake GBC give DIKSA?
5) Jumping over either way:
a) WHY should they JUMP OVER the PROMINENT ACARYA Srila Prabhupada bearing in mind GAPS in the Disciplic succession of ACARYAS are acceptable?
b) Nobody can Jump over PROMINENT ACARYA Srila Prabhupada to get diksa from Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam, December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:
“You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. This is called parampara system. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968:
“Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.”
6) Since NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada was EVER given that they ARE Acarya (Uttama Adhikari) HOW can they give DIKSA? I am NOT talking of FORMALITY of initiation.
7) Disciplic SUCCESSION of ACARYAS. Succession means TO SUCCEED that’s dictionary meaning. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saravati Thakura has been SUCCEEDED BY His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who IS Founder AND ACARYA of ISKCON. HOW are they ACARYA? HOW have they SUCCEEDED Srila Prabhupada? Please see below.
Srila Prabhupada IS the FOUNDER AND ACARYA note the HYPEN in his books. ISKCON Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. If it had been only ISKCON founder only there would not be hypen in between. This means Srila Prabhupada IS the CURRENT ACARYA. THIS IS THE CURRENT LINK. NO EXCUSES HERE whatsoever. The meaning is COMPLETELY CLEAR.
In the DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS the LAST name is: 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta. And He is PROMINENT so we ACCEPT HIM.
Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.29.17:
“In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Upendra, February 13, 1968:
“My Guru Maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Caitanya. We are 11th from Lord Caitanya. The disciplic sucession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva, 6. Padmanabha, 7. Nrihari, 8. Madhava, 9. Akshobhya, 10. Jayatirtha, 11. Jnanasindhu, 12. Purusottama, 13. Vidyanidhi, 14. Rajendra, 15. Jayadharma, 16. Purusottama, 17. Vyasatirtha, 18. Laksmipati, 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Isvara Puri (Advaita, Nityananda) 21. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Svarupa, Sanatana) Rupa, 23.(Jiva) Raghunath, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Visvanatha, 27. (Baladeva.) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gaura-kisora, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Sri Barshabhanavidayitadas, 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta.”
8) WHY have this bogus conditioned soul opportunist gurus voted in by fake GBC DENIED Srila Prabhupada as the INITIATOR even though he says VERY clearly:
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa, August 4, 1975:
“Regarding Sydney, that the President has left, if one does not follow the regulative principles, then he will leave. That is a fact. Has somebody else been elected? This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM in the INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”Srila Prabhupada’s 07-09-77, Letter to All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupad by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of his divine grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.
(SRILA PRABHUPADA’S SIGNATURE APPEARS IN THE ORIGINAL)
9) HOW are these conditioned soul opportunist gurus VOTED IN by fake GBC the Current Link? Please see below.
Srila Prabhupada and his words are on the transcendental platform, therefore his purports to the SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM is the CURRENT LINK. AS LONG AS WE HAVE PRABHUPADA’S PURPORTS TO THE SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM HE WILL BE OUR CURRENT LINK**THE REAL** MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM ARE***HIS PURPORTS***.
Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.7:
“As already stated, Brahma is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS COMING DOWN BY DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION, and in order to receive THE REAL MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM one should approach THE CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession.”
Conditioned soul “gurus” manufactured by fake GBC are not ACARYA and consequently can NOT initiate.
Nectar of Devotion 7 – Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles
REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Krsna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 Purport – Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati:
“By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acarya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acarya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s dealings with the acarya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acarya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.
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Comment by Mahesh Raja, some clarifications:
1)July 9th 1977 is a letter addressed to To ALL G.B.C., and Temple Presidents
2) It is SPECIFIC on the TITLE of Ritviks: RITVIK--REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACARYA
3) the specific duties are assigned: FOR THE PURPOSE OF PERFORMING INITIATIONS, BOTH FIRST INITIATION AND SECOND INITIATION
4) Specific instructions given to the Ritvik Representative of Acarya: ” THE NEWLY INITIATED DEVOTEES ARE DISCIPLES OF HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPAD…”,
5) There is NO INSTRUCTION EXCEPT the July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order for conducting 1st and 2nd initiations in the society. ONLY July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order is accepted as per Srila Prabhupada. No invention required.
6) We do not use the words “Ritvik Guru” because Srila Prabhupada has not used these words. BUT we DO use the SPECIFIC title RITVIK--REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACARYA because that is the instruction to the letter July 9th 1977 addressed to To ALL G.B.C., and Temple Presidents.
7) Ritvik is REPRESENTING the Acarya so obviously that is VERY BIG responsibility REPRESENTING Srila Prabhupada. Ritvik CAN be an ADVANCED devotee giving SIKSA that confirms to our Diksa Guru Srila Prabhupada:
740704BG.HON Lectures
Prabhupada: Then so siksa and diksa-guru… A SIKSA-GURU WHO INSTRUCTS AGAINST THE INSTRUCTION OF SPIRITUAL, HE IS NOT A SIKSA GURU. HE IS A DEMON. Siksa-guru, diksa-guru means… Sometimes a diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore one CAN take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru. SIKSA-GURU DOES NOT MEAN HE IS SPEAKING SOMETHING AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF THE DIKSA-GURU. HE IS NOT A SIKSA-GURU. HE IS A RASCAL.
8) Note: there are ALSO instances that even a prostitute becomes a SIKSA(INSTRUCTING) guru:
741202SB.BOM Lectures
This is the experience of Bilvamangala Thakura. He was a South Indian brahmana, very rich brahmana. But by bad association or something like that, he became a very staunch prostitute hunter. So he engaged all his income, money, everything, after one prostitute. Her name was Cintamani. So it is a very nice story. I am briefly describing. So one night… Every night he was to go to that prostitute, and one night it was very terribly raining. So the prostitute thought, “Now this night Bilvamangala is not coming. It is terribly raining.” But Bilvamangala went there, crossing the river, and the door was closed. He jumped over the door catching a snake. In this way, very dangerously, he reached the prostitute’s house. And the prostitute was astonished, that “How is this condition you could come here? Oh, you are so much attracted by this skin. If this much attraction you would have to Krsna, how it would have been nice for you.” So immediately he left the prostitute’s house and went to Vrndavana.
THE FACT IS IN HIS PREVIOUS LIFE HE EXECUTED DEVOTIONAL SERVICE UP TO BHAVA-BHAKTI. SO HIS CINTAMANI, THAT PROSTITUTE, BECAME HIS GURU, REMIND THAT “YOU ARE SO MUCH FOND OF PROSTITUTE. IF THIS ATTRACTION WOULD HAVE BEEN TO KRSNA, HOW MUCH SUCCESSFUL YOU WOULD HAVE…” SO IT ACTED, AND HE LEFT TO VRNDAVANA AND LIVED FOR SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS. So he has a book, Krsna-karnamrta, Bilvamangala Thakura. That is recommended by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu for reading, Krsna-karnamrta. So in that book he writes, bhaktis tvayi sthiratara bhagavan yadi syat: “If we have got fixed-up devotion unto You, my Lord, Bhagavan,” then daivena nah phalati divya-kisora-murtih, “then very easily we can see Your form,” divya-kisora-murtih, “Your divine form,” kisora-murtih, “very young boy.” Krsna is always kisora. Krsna’s another name is Kisora. Kisora-murtih. Kisora means kaisora, before marriage, before…, eleventh to sixteenth year. This is called kisora age. So kisora-murtih. Krsna is always kisora-murtih. So by devotional service, one can see the kisora-murtih of Krsna very easily. Bhaktis tvayi sthiratara bhagavan yadi syat: “If it is possible, then very easily we can see You.”
Adi 1.57 The Spiritual Masters
BILVAMANGALA THAKURA ACTUALLY ENTERED INTO THE TRANSCENDENTAL PASTIMES OF LORD KRSNA. He has recorded his transcendental experiences and appreciation in the book known as Krsna-karnamrta. IN THE BEGINNING OF THAT BOOK HE HAS OFFERED HIS OBEISANCES TO HIS DIFFERENT GURUS, AND IT IS TO BE NOTED THAT HE HAS ADORED THEM ALL EQUALLY. THE FIRST SPIRITUAL MASTER MENTIONED IS CINTAMANI, WHO WAS ONE OF HIS INSTRUCTING SPIRITUAL MASTERS BECAUSE SHE FIRST SHOWED HIM THE SPIRITUAL PATH. CINTAMANI WAS A PROSTITUTE WITH WHOM BILVAMANGALA WAS INTIMATE EARLIER IN HIS LIFE. SHE GAVE HIM THE INSPIRATION TO BEGIN ON THE PATH OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE, AND BECAUSE SHE CONVINCED HIM TO GIVE UP MATERIAL EXISTENCE TO TRY FOR PERFECTION BY LOVING KRSNA, HE HAS FIRST OFFERED HIS RESPECTS TO HER. NEXT HE OFFERS HIS RESPECTS TO HIS INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER, SOMAGIRI, AND THEN TO THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, WHO WAS ALSO HIS INSTRUCTING SPIRITUAL MASTER. He explicitly mentions Bhagavan, who has peacock feathers on His crown, because the Lord of Vrndavana, Krsna the cowherd boy, used to come to Bilvamangala to talk with him and supply him with milk. In his adoration of Sri Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, he describes that Jayasri, the goddess of fortune, Srimati Radharani, takes shelter in the shade of His lotus feet to enjoy the transcendental rasa of nuptial love. The complete treatise Krsna-karnamrta is dedicated to the transcendental pastimes of Sri Krsna and Srimati Radharani. It is a book to be read and understood by the most elevated devotees of Sri Krsna.
9) CHILD can be siksa guru.
Note: Yare dekhe quote did not make Sarasvati small child of Symasundara a Diksa guru – so HOW can they say this quote is Diksa guru Order?
741003SB.MAY Lectures
So these books, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, are there, and many other books, Puranas and others… They are simply describing the activities of Krsna so that you can understand Krsna. That… There is a verse in Caitanya-caritamrta: anadi bahirmukha jiva nahi jnana, krsna… Means “From, since a very, very long time, he has forgotten Krsna.” Just like anyone you can ask, in this country even, and what to speak of others, that “Do you know Krsna?” So you’ll find so many, I mean to say, major portion, people, will say, “No, we do not know what is Krsna.” JUST LIKE OUR SYAMASUNDARA’S DAUGHTER, SARASVATI. SHE PREACHES, “DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS KRSNA?” EVEN ONE KNOWS, BECAUSE HE (SHE) IS CHILD: “NO, NO. I DO NOT KNOW.” “OH, SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD,” SHE WILL SAY. She is so intelligent. She will say. So similarly, we can do. We can do Krsna’s service like this. EVEN A CHILD CAN DO. YOU GO. AS CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU SAYS, YARE DEKHA TARE KAHA KRSNA-UPADESA. THAT BECOMES… YOU BECOMES SPIRITUAL MASTER. If you take this vow, that “I’ll preach only Krsna,” then you are spiritual master. You become spiritual…
yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa
Just like that child, Sarasvati’s, preaching, “Do you know Krsna?” He says, “No.” “He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Simply say like that, “He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead,” and “Chant His holy name, Hare Krsna.” If you do this, then you are preacher; you are spiritual master. It is so nice. You don’t require to become very… Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. He does not say that you become a learned Vedic scholar. That is the goal of Vedic scholarship. If you simply know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then your Vedic study finished. You are M.A., doctor of Krsna philosophy, simply if you know this. You may not know in details, but if you simply believe, firmly convinced, that “Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is my master. He is my savior,” in this way, if you accept, then you become perfect, and you become liberated.
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