Will You Jump Off the Cliff Immediately?
BY: BHAKTA RAJ
Sep 16, 2010 — USA (SUN) — Dear Ajamila Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP. I read your article about challenging Madhu Pandit Prabhu. My interest zoomed high, when you had mentioned in the initial part that you have refuted Madhu Pandit Prabhu's Ritvik philosophy with the help of quotes from Guru, Sadhu, Sastra. But I have to say that most of your arguments are straw man arguments. I am not going to visit point by point, as it would be too lengthy, but I am highlighting few of them:
Ajamila das wrote:
"MP wants to re-instate the ritvik initiation system that was conducted owing to the circumstances of that time in the 'physical presence' of Srila Prabhupada. But for 'after his disappearance' Srila Prabhupada never even hinted that he wanted a posthumous ritvik diksha initiation system"
Please go thro the appointment tape (GBC's version/Rtvik version…whatever). The first question by Satsvarupa das Goswami was bang on target. He asked about how initiations would go on "particularly at a time, when you are no longer with us". The reply by HDG Srila Prabhupada also hit the bullseye. He said: "I will recommend some of you to act as officiating acharyas", or "Ritvik Acharyas" as Tamal Krishna Goswami confirmed. Pray tell me what other proof you have wherein Srila Prabhupada ordered for a "regular guru" system?
Srila Prabhupada has often repeated that a guru cannot not fall down. Please do not take shelter under the argument that in Kali yuga, such things are permitted. I am sure devotees with access to Vedabase can quote the precise words/time when HDG spoke these words, like "Guru is Guru, there cannot be bad guru's", etc.
Ajamila das wrote:
"Prabhupada: When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it." (SP room conversation, Vrindavana, May 1977)
DISCIPLE of MY DISCIPLE!!! The evidence is clear.
Please answer a simple question. I say the following to you, "When I order, you jump from the Cliff".
Please let me know whether you will jump off the cliff immediately treating my statement "When I order, you jump from the Cliff" as an order to jump off? NO. My statement just said, "When I order", that does not mean I have ordered. It just means "When I order", at that time, you jump off. Not NOW. That's the same words Srila Prabhupada is saying, that when there is an order, do that way, else DO NOT DO that way. The order was to have Officiating Acharyas and nothing else? Please do not state that you have provided irrefutable arguments when even such a basic statement has been twisted according to your whims and fancies.
Ajamila das wrote:
"So far as initiating disciples is concerned, anyone who is qualified can do this." SP letter 1969
Of course MP will declare no one in ISKCON is qualified. But this is just MP's envy since above I already proved the point that being fixed in devotion service for 20 - 30 years is at least Madhyama Adhikari"
You will agree that in many quotes, Srila Prabhupada says that the Guru should be:
1) Qualified, and
2) Authorized.
Prabhupada has often quoted the example that a person can become a doctor only if he has the qualification and the authorization from the medical council that he can practise medicine. Just because I am qualified, I cannot open up a hospital to treat patients. I have to be authorized. Just because an advocate has years of experience and knowledge, he cannot sit on a judge's chair and adjudicate cases. He will have to be authorized by the appropriate authorities. Similarly, just being fixed in devotion for 30 years does not make one a Diksha Guru. He needs to be authorized/ordered to take that duty. Please give an evidence of this order/authorization.
If I make a statement that, "I am training you, Ajamila Prabhu, to become a doctor in future", will this statement be sufficient enough for you to set-up a hospital and practise medicine? Srila Prabhupada has stated many a times similar to above, but that does not mean that you can become a Guru without an order/authorization from him.
I am sorry if I have gone too far. Just wished to express my thoughts after going through your post. Apologies, if I have offended you.
Trying to become a Vaishnava,
Raj
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